Thank you for so wonderfully articulating the existential terror, of having one's hunter/gatherer skills rendered useless, so quickly.
I think it's easy to see the opportunities (we) coders personally stand to lose, in our work roles; it's harder to see what we would do instead. Relevant parallel:
A friend created some visual effects software, that (among many other capabilities) handled lots of motion keyframing.
At trade shows, traditional animators would come yell at him! "You're killing my business, I got PAID to draw those tween frames!"
My friend's response, paraphrased (with abandon): "Yeah, but...You didn't get into animation to draw tween frames. What bigger, more bigger, more important creative work can you realistically take on, now that we're taking care of the keyframing?"
The animator didn't have a ready answer, and I don't think many coders do either.
Those potential future duties you wrote about ("directing AI agents, debugging when things go wrong, and designing higher level systems") likely sound unappealing to many current coders. [I may be projecting, haha.]
> Those potential future duties you wrote about ("directing AI agents, debugging when things go wrong, and designing higher level systems") likely sound unappealing to many current coders. [I may be projecting, haha.]
Yes, to many of us it does sound unappealing. I've been using a similar analogy for a while: it's like training as a professional pianist because you really like playing the piano... then one day you can't get a job because they're only hiring genAI-piano-machine operators.
I turned down a second stage interview at a good tech company a month ago because the job turned out to be "oh we don't write code ourselves anymore... you have to just direct LLM agents to do the work and then you review their pull requests". No thanks – I got into software engineering because I loved programming and solving problems as a teenager, not because I wanted a machine to output slop PRs for me to clean up.
We recently started embracing vibe coding at work, and my biggest issue is the fact that I enjoy coding. I enjoy the thinking aspect of it, and its more than just producing for the sake of producing. I dont’t think I’ll be able to fully embrace it, but we’ll see. Maybe I won’t have a choice
There's a possibility that vibe coders can make real coders useful again. Vibe coding tools and platforms are performing really well for best case (small tests, prototypes) and even expanding into amortized average cases, but I think the rigors of learning syntax-based coding teach developers to handle the worst cases/edge cases. These tools can't debug themselves properly (or else why generate errors in the first place?) so error recognition and the knowing how to wrangle the underlying infrastructure can go a long way still, even as these tools optimize for immediate surface level utilities faster.
That said, I do experience a lot of the existential dread you described (even though I now only code recreationally and not for my job) and I really appreciate your Instagram/YouTube/Substack articulating this well. Thank you for your work, it made me feel seen ❤️
Before vibe coder, it was cargo cult coder. And before that, it was a PHP coder. We're always looking to disparage. I don't see Vibe Coder as anything new.
I've actually found quite a few people who have attempted to use these AI coding platforms have developed a realization of just how difficult it is. Some of them have come out with a better degree of empathy. While others have decided to post on LinkedIn and sell their AI courses.
Those with the skill to understand beyond the copy and paste will be needed more than ever. However, I do fear for newer engineers looking to start in the industry.
Worth noting this is similar to music when drum machines and sampling lowered the barrier to entry for folks.
The key takeaway is the same as it was then: the technology is here and one can embrace to do better things or resist and watch it eventually change the world and those resisting usually get left out shaping it.
(Full transparency: I work in game dev, 27+ years. Production/PM but technical enough to follow along. Many of eng friends are split between the two camps of embrace and help shape things or resist)
Dunking on inexperienced people doing their best to learn something new because programmers over indexed on the wrong skills and want to feel better about that choice doesn’t feel like it’s going to change anything
While I like the violin analogy, I don’t know that it’s necessary. For most white-collar workers, they need only look at their own industry for the same pattern and the same feelings of anxiety and indignation at the vibe-translators/copywriters/paralegals/(insert profession here).
The phenomenon of watching someone with zero actual skills waltz into your profession and hold up mediocre work with pride, emboldened by whatever AI tool told them it was excellent, is by no means exclusive to software developers.
The irony is that it wasn’t violinists who created the very tools making them obsolete.
In my 40+ year career in software development, I've been witness to 100s of attempts at making coding easier/faster/cheaper/whatever. But coding is probably the most enjoyable aspect of SD. Could (so-called) AI help with requirements specifications, documentation,... and leave the fun parts for us die-hard coders?
Not a dev so cant say youre not wrong. I can only empathize
But as someone who understands systems, what I can say is that greasing the ramp to mediocrity also has the effect of kicking out the rungs to mastery
The fear that one day an Ai will have enough token/memory to encompass your whole code base is real. That there is a future where no one thinks its wrong to vibe code in prod because no one understands the code base is even scarier
… not to be an orchestra pedant but there are no ‘Fingerboards’ on fiddles. It’s called a ‘fingyboi’ and that’s Italian
Brilliant framing with the violinist analogy. The part about hearing them play beauitfully then falter really captures something most people miss about AI assistance. I've noticed the real issue isn't that vibe coders exist, its that they're accidentally stress-testing which parts of 'engineering' were actually gatekeeping versus genuine complexity. Kinda makes me wonder if we spent too much time perfecting our scales instead of composing.
I'd be curious what that exceptional vibe player did differently to avoid being another cliche.
Personally, I've seen established mentors use AI as a tool with their mentee to ease the learning curve around the fundamentals to eventually audit the LLM's output (and keeping work slop from more junior peers in check).
Ultimately I think these AI commitments are just bumper stickers or overcomplicated status signals for companies to schill on LinkedIn with. Or as a cover for outsourcing.
To me, AI is just a buggy version of Excel with prompts instead of formulas. Yes it can generate data cleaning puzzles or quizzes but our team still isn't sold on it.
I think the label 'vibe' coder is an insult enough :D
Thank you for so wonderfully articulating the existential terror, of having one's hunter/gatherer skills rendered useless, so quickly.
I think it's easy to see the opportunities (we) coders personally stand to lose, in our work roles; it's harder to see what we would do instead. Relevant parallel:
A friend created some visual effects software, that (among many other capabilities) handled lots of motion keyframing.
At trade shows, traditional animators would come yell at him! "You're killing my business, I got PAID to draw those tween frames!"
My friend's response, paraphrased (with abandon): "Yeah, but...You didn't get into animation to draw tween frames. What bigger, more bigger, more important creative work can you realistically take on, now that we're taking care of the keyframing?"
The animator didn't have a ready answer, and I don't think many coders do either.
Those potential future duties you wrote about ("directing AI agents, debugging when things go wrong, and designing higher level systems") likely sound unappealing to many current coders. [I may be projecting, haha.]
Great work, keep it up!
> Those potential future duties you wrote about ("directing AI agents, debugging when things go wrong, and designing higher level systems") likely sound unappealing to many current coders. [I may be projecting, haha.]
Yes, to many of us it does sound unappealing. I've been using a similar analogy for a while: it's like training as a professional pianist because you really like playing the piano... then one day you can't get a job because they're only hiring genAI-piano-machine operators.
I turned down a second stage interview at a good tech company a month ago because the job turned out to be "oh we don't write code ourselves anymore... you have to just direct LLM agents to do the work and then you review their pull requests". No thanks – I got into software engineering because I loved programming and solving problems as a teenager, not because I wanted a machine to output slop PRs for me to clean up.
We recently started embracing vibe coding at work, and my biggest issue is the fact that I enjoy coding. I enjoy the thinking aspect of it, and its more than just producing for the sake of producing. I dont’t think I’ll be able to fully embrace it, but we’ll see. Maybe I won’t have a choice
Honestly, if we have no choice I don't see the point. Let the managers get those AI agents to work, let's see how that goes.
There's a possibility that vibe coders can make real coders useful again. Vibe coding tools and platforms are performing really well for best case (small tests, prototypes) and even expanding into amortized average cases, but I think the rigors of learning syntax-based coding teach developers to handle the worst cases/edge cases. These tools can't debug themselves properly (or else why generate errors in the first place?) so error recognition and the knowing how to wrangle the underlying infrastructure can go a long way still, even as these tools optimize for immediate surface level utilities faster.
That said, I do experience a lot of the existential dread you described (even though I now only code recreationally and not for my job) and I really appreciate your Instagram/YouTube/Substack articulating this well. Thank you for your work, it made me feel seen ❤️
Before vibe coder, it was cargo cult coder. And before that, it was a PHP coder. We're always looking to disparage. I don't see Vibe Coder as anything new.
I've actually found quite a few people who have attempted to use these AI coding platforms have developed a realization of just how difficult it is. Some of them have come out with a better degree of empathy. While others have decided to post on LinkedIn and sell their AI courses.
Those with the skill to understand beyond the copy and paste will be needed more than ever. However, I do fear for newer engineers looking to start in the industry.
Worth noting this is similar to music when drum machines and sampling lowered the barrier to entry for folks.
The key takeaway is the same as it was then: the technology is here and one can embrace to do better things or resist and watch it eventually change the world and those resisting usually get left out shaping it.
(Full transparency: I work in game dev, 27+ years. Production/PM but technical enough to follow along. Many of eng friends are split between the two camps of embrace and help shape things or resist)
Dunking on inexperienced people doing their best to learn something new because programmers over indexed on the wrong skills and want to feel better about that choice doesn’t feel like it’s going to change anything
While I like the violin analogy, I don’t know that it’s necessary. For most white-collar workers, they need only look at their own industry for the same pattern and the same feelings of anxiety and indignation at the vibe-translators/copywriters/paralegals/(insert profession here).
The phenomenon of watching someone with zero actual skills waltz into your profession and hold up mediocre work with pride, emboldened by whatever AI tool told them it was excellent, is by no means exclusive to software developers.
The irony is that it wasn’t violinists who created the very tools making them obsolete.
I don’t mind people getting into dev this way. You have to start somewhere. What I mind is the arrogance and hubris of some of them. Like, seriously.
In my 40+ year career in software development, I've been witness to 100s of attempts at making coding easier/faster/cheaper/whatever. But coding is probably the most enjoyable aspect of SD. Could (so-called) AI help with requirements specifications, documentation,... and leave the fun parts for us die-hard coders?
“AI is consumption disguised as creation.”
@max murphy
Not a dev so cant say youre not wrong. I can only empathize
But as someone who understands systems, what I can say is that greasing the ramp to mediocrity also has the effect of kicking out the rungs to mastery
The fear that one day an Ai will have enough token/memory to encompass your whole code base is real. That there is a future where no one thinks its wrong to vibe code in prod because no one understands the code base is even scarier
… not to be an orchestra pedant but there are no ‘Fingerboards’ on fiddles. It’s called a ‘fingyboi’ and that’s Italian
your videos have come off to me like your ego feels threatened because what you were most valued for previously in society is not valued anymore
but you are more as a person than just your skill that society values
Brilliant framing with the violinist analogy. The part about hearing them play beauitfully then falter really captures something most people miss about AI assistance. I've noticed the real issue isn't that vibe coders exist, its that they're accidentally stress-testing which parts of 'engineering' were actually gatekeeping versus genuine complexity. Kinda makes me wonder if we spent too much time perfecting our scales instead of composing.
I'd be curious what that exceptional vibe player did differently to avoid being another cliche.
Personally, I've seen established mentors use AI as a tool with their mentee to ease the learning curve around the fundamentals to eventually audit the LLM's output (and keeping work slop from more junior peers in check).
Ultimately I think these AI commitments are just bumper stickers or overcomplicated status signals for companies to schill on LinkedIn with. Or as a cover for outsourcing.
To me, AI is just a buggy version of Excel with prompts instead of formulas. Yes it can generate data cleaning puzzles or quizzes but our team still isn't sold on it.